10: The Afterlife, Part 3: Bridging the Gap to the Afterlife with Reverend Angela Abt

00:00:01 Speaker 1: I'm just a fool. We fearenstraure traveling through this world below. Welcome to death, grief and other shit we don't discuss. I'm Kyle McMahon. Mediums, psychics, intuitives, sensitives, sears, clairvoyance, we call them many things. The history of mediums and their connection to our loved ones spans centuries and cultures, intertwining one's spirituality, belief systems, and the human desire to communicate with the departed. Ancient civilizations revered oracles and shamans acting as intermediaries between the living and the dead. In the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, spiritualism gained popularity as a movement that sought to establish contact with deceased loved ones, and mediums played a central role in spiritualists gatherings, conducting seances, and using various techniques to channel spirits. Many claimed to have the ability to hear or see the spirits and relay their messages to those seeking soulless or closer from their loved ones. During this period, mediums often utilize such tools as wuiji boards, automatic writing, and table tipping to facilitate communication. These methods became widely recognized and were both intriguing and controversy, attracting believers and skeptics alike to find out what was behind this. The rise of photography also brought forth the phenomenon of spirit photography, where individuals claimed to capture images of departed loved ones alongside the living. Over time, mediums and their practices evolved with the advancements in technology. In the twentieth century, mediums embraced new forms of communication such as telephone and radios to connect with the spirit world, and today computers and the Internet. Some claimed to receive messages through electronic devices and that's known as electronic voice phenomenon or EVPs, while others explored the use of psychics and clairvoyance as mediums to bridge the gap bet the living and the dead. In more recent years, the advent of the Internet and all of the digital platforms and social media applications has given rise to an entire new era of mediumship. Online mediums now offer virtual readings and communications with loved ones through video calls, chat sessions, and email exchanges. Social media platforms have also become spaces where individuals seek comfort and share their experiences of connecting with departed loved ones. But throughout history, mediums have provided soulless closure and healing for individuals grieving over the loss of loved ones. And while the legitimacy of mediumship is often debated and heavily scrutinized, the desire to connect with depart loved ones remains a powerful aspect of the human experience all across the world, and mediums continue to adapt and explore new avenues for communication, offering a sense of hope and connection to those seeking to transcend the boundaries between life and debt. I met Reverend Angela Apt at Fellowships of the Spirit, a beautiful building build as a center for spiritual development and self discovery just right outside of the gates of lily Dale, New York. I hadn't met Angela before, as Nate, a producer with iHeart, made the contacts, and Angela had zero idea about my background, or who I was, or why I was even there. I was going into this blind, and so was she. I was curious about how Reverend apt had gotten to lily Dale in the first place, just what physically led her to this hamlet, but what life circumstances led her to this her true calling. I realized that I could connect to spirit and realized I could connect to loved ones. When I was about seventeen years old, were actually working at a bank, which which is not where you would have expected, right, And from there I ended up actually coming to lily Dale and getting a reading with Elaine Thomas, who which is where we are now is in her place. And I remember I went for two or three readings to her, and my friend kept telling me to tell Elaine that I could do this too, you know, and I didn't, so like I waited, probably about the third reading or so, I felt like I was confessing, you know, I could do this, and you know, and Elaine said, you know, it's not as big a deal as you think it is. It's actually your natural birthright. We are all connected to spirit and to our loved ones. It's something we can all do and all connected to our intuition. And then she said, by the way, I have a school. You could get better at it and understand more of what you're doing if you came to my school. And at that time I was I had no idea there were schools. I actually now come back and I teach in the school's yeah. Yeah, and if people may not know what what does spirit mean? Exactly? I always feel like spirit as you're connecting to a higher power, you know, your higher self. Maybe spirit guides or loved ones on the other side. So probably, like I'm saying, spirit and it's all that. Okay, you know, so somebody might call it God, somebody will universe whatever. Okay, we're all or so many of us are talking about the same thing no matter what we call it. I think so too. Yeah, higher power which is God. Yeah. So so now you actually you own a business, yeah, in Williamsville. Yes, and tell me about that. It's Santosha Holistic Center, which Santosha means contentment of the body, mind and spirit, which was the sort of our intention for the place. So I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I teach classes there, so I teach people how to connect to their intuition, okay, their mediumship abilities, meditation, because I feel meditation is one of the most important things. And I do readings there too. That's awesome. When did you say, you know what, I've got to stop doing the you know, traditional job or whatever, and I've really got to follow this. Yeah, I've been doing it for a long time, so I'd say different things kind of led me. But opening up Santosha happened after my mom passed away. So my mom passed away and I and my mother was always somebody that said follow your dreams and don't let your fears get in the way, like go for it. So after she died, I heard that. You know, I just kept feeling like I heard it my head over and over again, and I had signs all the time that she was around, and I finally thought, I'm gonna do it. I'm just gonna do it. I'm gonna open this up. I'm gonna make this my path. I'm gonna quit my regular my regular job, and make this my life. It's amazing the gifts that I find we keep receiving from people that have passed on that we love. You know, I know they're helping us. They help us from from the other side. I truly, they don't really leave us. They leave the physical body because something goes wrong with the physical body, but but they're soul one hundred percent still exists. It's you know, that's a great intro to some of my questions. Is in your belief, what what does death. Mean it really like, you know, I feel it's our soul. You know, we're all spirit, you know, we're all like soul in a human body. I always feel like our bodies our vehicle that allows us to have the experiences. And so when we die, our soul leaves, and usually it's because something that weakness in the body, or the body gets ill or whatever happens, and our soul to me is still whole and still is. I feel like it's a veil. I don't know if I'm saying that right, Yeah, no, I know, I tu Yeah, it's it's a veil that we crossed to on the other side. I was because I feel my mother is here now, you know, kind of kind of egging me along and all excited that I'm doing this, and probably you're too, right, yeah and so, but but but it feels like they're they're right there, kind of behind a veil talking to me, and I can hear them. That's awesome. Yeah. And is that how is it like audible? Is it in here? It in your like mind? How does that come across in my mind? Okay? Yeah, So it's it's telepathic communication or mind language. So what you do when when you're talking to spirit as you kind of learn, and we do this all the time, Like how many times, like do you get a feeling all of a sudden somebody comes to your mind that you haven't talked to in a long time, and then they call you the next day, right, Yeah, Yeah, and they came to your mind because they were thinking of you and they called you. So so that's how that happens, right, It's all that's the exact same way Spirit communicates with us, So anybody really can do it. It's about paying attention to pictures that come into your mind or words or even just feelings. And you know, it's interesting that you say that, because my mom that would happen to her all the time. She would say, you know, you know, I've been thinking about X person and then later that day that X person would call yeah, and she's like, I was just saying to Kyle, you know that I haven't talked to you in a few months, and you just popped in my mind. And it's interesting how often had happened to her. She was very in touch emotionally with people, were her heart on her sleeve. Yeah, And it's cool to hear you say that because it's like making me think of all the time she said that to me, you know, yeah, and probably the times it's happened to you or go gut feelings too, you know, anytime you're getting a gut feeling about something, I feel like if I live my life according to my gut feelings, I'm always in the right direction. Yeah, because that's that's also spirit communicating with us or our loved ones. Yeah, it's interesting, Oprah says. Life will throw you know, a whisper at you, like, hey, you need to do this, and then if you ignore it, it's like a pebble, you know, your way, and then eventually it's like hello, like you finally say, okay, I got it, I write it, I'll do it. Mine has always slowed down, you know. I'll see it on a billboard and then somebody will say it, and then finally I'll go to the grocery store and the cashier will say it and I'm like, all right, I got have slowed down, you know. Yeah, it's amazing. And if we don't listen, yeah, you know, we miss those signs that you know, it's pretty incredible what we get. Yeah, you know, because sometimes we miss them later on you say, oh, I knew I shouldn't have gone that way home, or you know, I knew I should have you know, trusted that person or not trusted or whatever. Right, yeah, yeah, So in death, do you believe that our spirit, the spirit of the person who has passed, lives on here? Is it like another plane? Like? How is that? What are you thinking? Um? I always feel like another plane, you know. But but it's right here, you know, it's not far away because my mother, you know, I was lucky my mother talked to me about this stuff before she crossed over because she knew this is what I did for a living, you know. So but but my mother has shown me that, you know. Yeah, I have the house I love the most when I was here, you know, and I'm still out there doing my gardening and doing like some of the same things, just right you know, right near you. And and if you call out to me, I can hear you, so I can call out to her. And sometimes I do it, Hey mom, where are you? With my voice? And then sometimes in my language, and she's right here, you know. Yeah. Like I think I think it's easier when you're there because you don't have a physical body so you can move around like, you know, you don't have to get in a car and drive. I think they can do it just like with thought, right, yeah, yeah, And I know that when I go, um, I would love to come and visit my loved ones. I always joke that I'm going to mess with some of my friends or loved ones and like, you know, they'll like walk into the bathroom and I've written like on the mirror, like you know, get out. But then I put like, hellol, just kidding, kidding, yeah, just because why wouldn't I want to be Yeah, you want to be Yeah, you can assist them. You can see things, you know here, you know, we kind of see we have our physical eyes, so I can see you and kind of what's around when when you're on the other side, you get a bigger picture, you know, so you can come back and be a huge assistance to your loved ones. Right, I know it because because the loved ones come to me when I'm doing readings, you know, or having sessions with people, and they get guidanced all the time. They never come like like they'll come with evidence, you know, and give me proof that it's them for sure, you know, And I'll give it to the person. But they always have a message too, Like my mother. You know, I could hear her saying even now, like are you kidding me? I'm definitely going to give you my two cents. I'm you know, so, yeah, that's what they do. It's awesome, it really is. I mean, and if you are open to receiving it, you know what a gift that is. Yeah, you know because through this with my mom, you know, at the end, um, you know, her last day she said, I know I'm getting upset, but right yeah, her last day, she said, whenever you need me, just talk to me. I'm there, I promise you. And she said, you know, I uh, if you're having a bad day, just talk to me. I'm right there with you. I promise you that. And I believe that, you know, and I believe that my momm helped my mom to understand that. You know, my mom would just passed a few months before guided her over probably exactly. And then my mom gave me that gift to be able to say, you know, when you want to talk to me, just talk and you know you might not see me, but I'm right there and yeah, um, and then if you talk to her and then and then I always tell people this, like and then just be silent for a minute, you know, close your eyes and then notice what thoughts come into your mind, And that's her talking back to you. Yeah, you know, yeah, always yeah. Yeah. And ask for signs. I think that's important too. You know, if I asked my mother for signs, I've you even said, said to my mother like, that's pretty good, but can you give me a better one, you know, and I'll get something better? Yeah? Yeah? And and do you you have to give yourself the time and space to hear it, right, yes, like do you mean the sign? Yes, yes, yes, yeah, because you can't you can't say I want this to be the sign or the specific thing you have to say. If you ask for a sign, you'll get it, but you're right, stay open to what that's going to be. And okay, yeah, I love that you're one of my mom's on You're one absolutely okay, all right, So okay, So my mom always said that her mom came to her she'd see the numbers one to nine, and that was my mom's address growing up. So my mother said, I'll come to you with two five two, right, so I'll wake up in the middle of the night and it's two five two. Wow. Yeah. Or I'll find myself looking at the clock and it's two five two. Or I'm behind license plates and I keep seeing two five two. So I said to my mom, like, that's pretty good, but you know, I want something better. Yeah, I want to know for sure that you're here. So so one night I'm sound asleep and I wake up and I'm thinking I'm gonna look and it's gonna be two five two. And I look at the clock and it's it's three oh three, you know, And I'm like, oh no, I'm awake. I'm never going to fall back and sleep, Like why am I waking? You know you hate when that happens. Yeah, right, And so I lay my head back down and try to go back to sleep, and I look like at the digital numbers three oh three, and if you look at those kind of sideways, that's mm oh wow. Yeah. And so and I could kind of hear my mom and my head say, how's that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's pretty amazing. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's you know, I I was telling you this story about with the tattoo and the Facebook thing, and it's like you know, my mom connected to all of her friends on Facebook and she would post like dance she was a dance teacher. She would post like lessons on there and stuff like that. So it was kind of appropriate that, you know, I see this. You know, Joanne liked your post, and then it was about the freaking tattoo, which is like that your mom liked it after she was on the other side exactly. Yeah, that's yeah, you know, I mean, it's just, um, there's no explanation for that. I called my dad and I was like, were you on like Mom's phone or anything. And he was like, no, I'm downstairs or phone's upstairs. Well what's up? And I'm like, so Mom's phone is upstairs and he's like, yeah, I've been in meetings all day. What's going on? Like He's like, he's like, what are you getting at? Yeah? You know yeah yeah, And I'm like, uh, okay, so this just happened to tell you this story. Yeah, And he's like, wow, that's you know, pretty incredible sign Yeah to SIGND like they want they it's energy somehow they do that with energy. When my uncle died, his my aunt's phone was in her purse. My uncle loved the phone and and her, and so her phone was in her purse turned off her they were leaving the hospice where he was and her and the phone's the off phone started ringing and it was him. Yeah, and his phone also was in her purse turned off. So yeah, yeah, it's definitely a sign. Like they they figure out ways that they want us to know they love us. You know, like my mother, you know, wants to know what's going on. You know, there's no way she's not gonna know what's going on. Yeah, yeah, How do we connect with them? How can somebody listening? How can I How do you connect with your mom or any loved ones that have passed on the easiest way I would say is take a picture of them and talk to talk to him, you know, look at the picture. It's easier. And and mom, how are you I need some guidance or I need some advice on this? Okay? And kind of make it clear and then close your eyes and just know you have to. It's it's a telepathic communication or mind language, and just notice what comes into your mind and you'll get your answer. You know. Okay, did that make sense that? Okay? Yeah? It works. I actually taught that class in lily Dale last summer, and I've taught it at Santosha as well. And it's knowing how to connect to your loved ones on the other side and get clear messages from them and know for sure it's them. I love teaching it because I love doing readings, but I love to teach it because because you can do it for yourself. Yeah you know. Yeah, And where what is the class called connecting to your loved ones on the other side? Oh okay, I'm pretty sure that's what we call we call the different things. Yeah, but it's something like that. Yeah. No, I love that. And you know, I've always wondered, like, you know, I'm so busy all the time, and I want to make sure that I'm giving space to allow her to connect with me, you know, and I didn't know how to do that. So yeah, I love that. Yeah, it's just I think it's it's learning how to communicate a different way, you know, it's still communicating, but she doesn't have a physical body, so she can't do it with her voice. Yeah, you know. Yeah, so it's all in mind, do you think that? So all of you know, my mom has passed, my pop up, my my other grandparents, my mom um. When we pass away, do we all reunite again or we all together? Yeah? Yeah. It's so comforting to know that there's no doubt in Angela's mind that I'll be reunited once again with my loved ones. While I believe in my soul that this is true, that I will be reunited once again, the confidence of someone who was quite clearly in touch with the other side feels like a warm hug from mom and my mom and pop Up and Grandma and grandpa and all my other loved ones there when we returned. Reverend app shares her own story of her mom's passing and the similarities to my mom's passing are eerie with both of them talking about loved ones on the other side, and later you'll hear my full unedited reading from Reverend App As Reverend Angela Appton I discussed the afterlife our loved ones and contacting the other side, I quickly realized how many similarities our stories had, and doing this entire series, I've been realizing how many people who have loved ones that crossed over also have many similarities in those final moments. Continuing the conversation on reuniting with our loved ones. On the other side, Reverend apt shares her own personal story. I was there when my mom passed and my sister was too. My mom wanted us to be with her. I felt like we were guiding her, and she was kind of showing us and of course showing us in the mind language thing that she was kind of like stepping out of her body in a peaceful way and into my grandmother's arms. And I was really aware of like we had family Italian family picnics, and she was walking into one of those was a celebration, you know. Yeah, yeah, just like when a baby is born. Here we have that big celebration. And I feel that when somebody crosses over what I've seen in evidence I've gotten or whatever is it's the same thing. It makes sense. And it's really funny that you say that, because my mom, you know, I was lucky enough, although I didn't know that at the time, I was lucky enough to be by her side in you know, her final hours. Yeah, she passed sleepily that night, but I was able to right, you got to do with her? It is. I didn't feel that, you know, I got to hold her hand and talk to her, and she was there, but then she would like go away and then come back. And at one point she was talking about her mom and how she saw her standing there. Yeah, and uh, she said something to the effect of, you know, she's there bringing me. Yeah, and you know, we took that to mean that she's bringing her on the other side. Yeah, I feel that they're there. Like my mother said that too about my grandmother was there too, and my mother kind of could see her, you know, and I felt like my grandmother and my grandfather and my aunt was there and just kind of waiting, you know, until she was ready ready to go. People go when they're ready to go. Yeah. Yeah, my mother waited. They kept saying, like the hospice would come in and they'd say, she doesn't her she has no blood pressure, she's going to be gone today, and then she'd keep on. She kept until my brother came, you know, she waited until my brother came. Yeah. And it's interesting, you know, because it's very similar to with my mom um. You know, my mom really waited until she saw my mom because my mom was sick at that time, so it took her a little longer to get ready and to go over there, and um, and my mom was like, she doesn't have to come, blah blah blah and uh. And I was like, my mom's of course she's gonna come. And she was like it's a lot for you know, my mom's still in her final hours thinking about everybody else. Yeah, that's what happens. Yeah, and um, and I'm like, Mom, of course she's coming, Like she's already getting ready, like it's not a question. And then when my mom got there, it was like everybody that was able that was like in our region was able to be there with her. Yeah. And then you know, then and then she was okay, and it's like, okay, she she had to make sure everybody was okay exactly when she saw that, then she crossed. Yeah, and with my mom, you know, I truly believe that. And you know, I've talked to my dad about this and stuff that she waited until she knew that I was going to be okay before because she knew how tough it was going to be for me. And I can't tell you how many people have now told me that your mom maybe promise her that I would, you know, watch over you and make sure you're gonna be okay. Like then I heard somebody else say she wanted to make sure you're gonna be okay, and I'm like, okay. She was telling you know a few people this because she loves you so much. Yea, and she still does. Yeah, she wants to make sure. My mother called would call up on the phone all the time and make me write down her words of wisdom, you know, because I want you to have this stuff after And by the way, when your sisters and brothers are sad, then you can pull out the notebook and you can you can give them my words a wisdom. They'll feel better, that's all. Yeah. And it little did I know she was doing that with all of us, right, so we have a different word wisdom. That's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. And then you know, then she finally asked me, you know, that day, the day she passed, she said, um, Kyle, I just need to know that you're gonna be okay. And for days, probably a week or two, she kept asking me that are you gonna be okay? And I'm like, Mom, you're not going anywhere. We're not talking about this, and I would change the subject. And then a few days later, she'd be like, Kyle, I need to know is everything going to be okay with you? I'm like, mom, stop, you're not going anywhere. I'm not having this conversation the same thing. Stop it and then finally ended up her being her last day. I'm just like, oh my god, fine, yeah, let's talk about it, you know. And I wasn't. I didn't actually say that, but I did think I did. I did say that because my mother did the same thing, and even with me doing what I do, I don't want to talk about it because I don't want to face it, and I hope that, you know, somehow we'd have a miracle and she'd lived. So yeah, I did say that. Fine, what do you want to say? Yeah? I love that. Yeah, so I said, you know, I was like, you know, okay, let's talk about it, and um, she said, you know, I need to know are you going to be okay? And then you know, now she started crying, and then I'm crying and I'm like, I don't know how I'm going to do it, but I promise you that I will find a way to get through it. And she was like, you've got to promise me, You've got to promise you're gonna be okay. And I'm like, I promise, you know, And I said, you know you've been you have gotten me through all of this. Oh, you know my entire life. You've been my rock. And I don't know how I'm gonna be okay. I'll find a way for you, yeah, you know, and and that she needed to hear that, like you gave her peace, right yeah, And and and then even though you miss her, you're okay. Yes, yeah, I mean I don't okay, but but yeah, I mean I'm you know, there were some days, especially early on, where I was just like, do I even want to live? Like my mom's gone? My mom's gone, What is the point of life? Yeah? And I didn't want to die, but I'm just like, do I want to live? Want? Yeah? Yeah, you don't want to go on? You don't know what to do? Yeah, it's it's it's like the world goes on and for everybody, and everything is so different. You know. I remember like I'd put the TV on and see a show that my mother watched, and I think, wow, like that's still on and she's not here watching, Like how weird? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, And you know when I would have those thoughts, I would say, well, you promised her, you know what I mean, Like, you don't have a choice. Now, that's why she made you promise exactly exactly. And you know, I'm finding she had so much meaning in her life and still has so much meaning to me. But I'm trying to find meaning in her death, yeah, which kind of on a small scale, but also on a bigger scale. Small scale being like pancreatic cancer and you know, so I'm working on that with the foundation and that sort of thing, but on the bigger scale, I don't want such a big heart and such a big person and personality to just stop. Yeah, and so I you know, that's part of why I'm doing this, Like I want to know, you know, what happens. Her life meant something exactly right, and so yeah, and so you're doing this to help other people. I did. That's why I opened up my center, you know, because yeah, because my mom died and I thought I want to do something too. If you come to my center right on the shelf when you walk in, as her picture, you know, yeah, because I did it, she kind of gave me the inspiration and the courage, yeah, to help other people. Yeah, and it's amazing because you know, our stories in some ways are similar and they both resulted in you know, you are helping other people. And I hope that this series will help other people will um because I figured, you know, if I I went on Oprah, you know and cried in front of the world, like over that whole situation, you did that. Yeah, you know, I can. I can toughen it out from my mom if it means that that helps other people. Yeah, It's like what you're doing is starting the conversation, you know about something that we You and I didn't want to talk about it to our moms and nobody wants to talk about it. Luckily, we had like mothers that made us talk about it, right because it helped us. Yeah, you know, and so if we can get other people to talk about it too. We're all going to die. You know. It's not something that we can hide from. You know, we're gonna We're gonna age and whatever's going to happen, that we're all going to die. Yeah. Yeah, you can't escape it. Yeah, Yeah, that that is I would say, the one thing that is inevitable is that all of us are going to die. I know point no, And I think that we all try to avoid we don't want to talk about it or we're afraid. And that I always felt like with me doing readings and the work that I do, that I wanted to kind of spread that too, to let people know it's it's not it isn't done you cross. You know, you your soul you know, is out of your physical body, but you continue on. You know, you didn't learn everything that you learned in your life for nothing, you know, it goes on. I love that. Yeah. Yeah, And that's one thing that I am learning is that, you know, before my mom passing, like I just kind of thought that's the end, you know, like you you die and then that's it. That's it. Yeah. And I even grew up Catholic and too, and I really am and I you know, I I believe in a higher power and and God have um and whether you're call it heaven or whatever, I believe in another plane of us. And and it is like a heaven, you know it is. But yeah, go ahead, yeah, oh no, no worries, yeah, and um and I you know, all of that while I believe that and still do you know, it still was fine. Final for me because it never really affected me. So I'm always like, oh, yeah, you go to heaven or whatever you call it, and that's the end of that. Yeah. But now we're talking about my mom and then my mom and it's like, wait, so does that mean like they're just there and I'm here and I will never interact with them or feel them again until that until I die or whatever. But what I'm learning is that no, it's not. No, you can still final. Still, yeah, it's not final at all. Yeah, this journey, I'm glad that I'm going on. And it's really rough, but I'm it is. I'm glad you're saying it's rough, because it is hard. You know. You do have to cry, yeah, you know when you do it, you have to feel it. You know. I told you the story earlier about my mom because my stepfather died from the same thing as my mom, like a year before she was diagnosed with being sick. And I remember like going over because I hated seeing my mom that upset and crandmother was a strong one, you know, and to see her kind of falling apart, and you know, and I'm the oldest and my sister's both said, you're the oldest. You have to go talk to mom, you know, and help her and get her to a place that she's not crying all the time, you know, let her know she's strong, you know. So so I go over and you know, and I start the conversation and Mom, you know, you're pretty strong, You're gonna be okay, and you know, and trying to get her to stop crying. And she looked at me, you know, only as an Italian mother could, and said, yeah, Angela, shut up right now. I don't want to hear that, you know, she said, I want to cry, you know, because every one of these tears is for Ron. That's my stepdad's name, and um and he was worth it, you know, so so it's important to feel it. I think we always try to. We want to. Like I did with my mom, I wanted to make her feel better, you know, or like when when I do readings and somebody starts to cry. I've learned this. I always have tissues nearby, but I don't hand them a tissue ever. And the reason I don't is because that's like you're saying, dry your tears, you know, and we do that too much in our society. I think you know, we need to feel. Yeah. Right. I had a friend, very very very close friend that knew my mom well, had been to you know, holidays at my parents' house and stuff, and when I told him when the funeral was, he was like, oh, I'm not gonna go. And I was like huh and he was like, um, I don't do the funeral thing and the crying and all like I can't see that, and I'm like it hurt me. But then I realized how hurt of a person he must be to not be able to see others cry. Let alone show your vulnerability. And because we all cry, I mean, and if you don't, I mean I think there's a bigger problem. Yeah. Yeah, but um, but we're taught to. I've always heard this, like be strong. Yeah. Like I kind of went and said that to my mom. I'm I'm like ashamed in a way I even did that because you know, it's yeah, you can still be strong and crying. Yeah, I feel your feelings of course. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny because you know, similarly with my mom, she never thought she was strong, and everybody that knows her, you know, it was like, your mom's so strong, blah, blah blah, you know, and she never gave herself that that acknowledgement of how strong she was. And I similarly was would say, you know, I could not stand to see or cry, and um like it would immediately make me cry. And yeah, she would say, you know, I'm hurting from chemo or whatever and IM and I'll be like, well, you know, forty eight hours those effects go away, and we're at forty two hours, so just hold on, you're good. And and you know, she was gracious enough most times, yeah, most times to let it go. But I think sometimes it got to her and she would say like, Kyle, I'm I'm gonna be in pain sometimes, like I have cancer, you know, and it's not all roses. And because I was always the positive, yeah, and you're trying to be positive, that's why you settle the exactly. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, we'll just manifest it and blah blah blah blah blah. And the bottom line is, you know, she's right, she has cancer, Like there's gonna be it's going to be it's not roses, you know, right, and it's gonna be good days, bad days, exactly. And she's allowed to have those and I should have and she you know, I talked to her about it later and she was like, of course, Kyle, I know she understood. She understood because she's probably the one that taught you to be positive, right exactly, So she got it. Yeah, you got it. Yeah, Like like that's interesting you say that, because when somebody's dying, we have to let them be where they are too, because they're dealing with whatever's going on for them. Yeah. Well yeah, and it's their journey. You know. She made some decisions on her cancer journey that I'm like, what the f are you doing? Yeah, but then you know, talking to my therapist, you know, my therapist was like, what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm telling my mom that she's not doing that. She's going to do this instead, and blah blah blah. And she's like, it's not your journey. You don't have You're not the one who has cancer. If she wants to, um, you know, say to herself, and I'm just making this up, but say to herself, I'll give myself a year of chemo and then if it's still progressing, I'm not doing that. It's not your call to make Kyle, and I'm like, yeah, well it's my mom, and I'm she's not gonna you know. And I did that too, Yeah, And I really I had to realize that, like, you know, I probably would do the same thing. I mean, and that's not what she did. She you know, she never gave up. But that's what I was thinking, is it's giving up. Yeah. And the fact of the matter is is it's not if if I come to the terms that I have a year to live, I may not want to live that final year getting radiation or chemo or whatever. I might want to just live my life. Yeah. And some people choose to do it yeah way, because they don't want the effects from the chemo. And you're right, my mother did that too, and we were like, no, I said it to her, No, Mom, you're not doing that, you know, And she said the same thing. I have to do it my way. Yeah, you know, Yeah, I remember. I remember my mom. My mother was a healthy eater, like very healthy, and you know, exercised all the time. And when she got cancer, she had my nephew go out right away and buy her five pound backs of chocolates and she put them in the closet and we're like, Mom, Mom, you can't eat sugar, Like that's not good for this, said, are you kidding me? I did that for all these years. Now I'm here, I'm I'm an eat as much candy as I want, you know. Yeah? Yeah, And it's funny funny with my mom. With my momm we did the same thing. She ended up she beat cancer three times um and ended up with a I forget what it's called, but it's basically like a degenitor degenerative disease where your lungs crystallize. Oh, I forget what's called. And so we would trying to keep her healthy and blah blah blah blah blah, and she would always have candy here or you know, she had a sweet tooth. And sometimes we'd be like mom, like you know, you had ice cream for breakfast or whatever, and she's like end. And then it like gets to the point where it's like, you know what you're like in your mid eighties to late eighties, Like how long? How much longer if we say no, you can't eat candy, Like is it going to give her another thirty years? Like no, like you let her eat candy, you know, And my father in law I remember he was in his eighties and I can't remember what was wrong. He had a few a few health issues, and we had caregivers that came over and helped him in one played poker with him health the time, and and she and she'd always have crackers and cheese and pepperoni. And everyone said, he can't have the pepperoni, you know, And I said the same thing, like, let him have the pepperoni. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, let him let him do it. But I guess, like back to what you were saying, is let people do it their way, right, right, right, what's right for them. Yeah, I mean what I want, what I wanted could have not extended her life at all, and then she would have had to deal with the effects of that. Yeah, whereas uh, you know, if if it happened the way she wanted, whether it gave her six months or or the year that they gave her, which they didn't give her a time. Yeah, but I'm just saying, yeah, theoretically she went out on her terms. Yea, And like that's I'm too, way more respectful than you know, me dictating, Yeah, what I want for her life. Yeah, but I think it's but I think it's that we're so afraid to lose them, right, and especially because we feel like we're losing them and maybe that's going to be it and we're gonna have another connection that we we grab onto any hope. It's like this, this little thing, or this is going to be it, or you know, if my mother doesn't eat the candy, that that's going to save her life. Yeah, and I think that's why we do that. Yeah. Yeah, it's all it's all about you get to like it's accepting it, right. It's like at first everybody's in shock, you know. And then and I think, like that Elizabeth Coober Ross on the Seven Stages of Dying and grieving and all that, like I think those are really true. Yeah yeah, yeah, I still to this day it's the best book. It is so good and I still do this day. I like I don't and probably none of us do them linear linearly. You know. It's like I'll go to one to four, you know, it's like I'm like grieving acceptance and then it's like no, I'm not accepting it, and then tomorrow I'm you know, man anger RNG was part of it too, Like this isn't fair you know and or that I'll do anything. I remember praying, like, I'll do anything, just let my mom be here, right, Yeah. And then you get to accept it, you know, because you love them and you just you don't have choice, right Yeah. And you know, there came a point with her where I just kind of had to accept that. I mean I could see her and see she was just bones and this is not my healthy mom that yeah, it just looks normal two months ago. Yeah. And I was still you know, like she'll get better. Yeah, she's gonna get better. And you know, they're coming out with different you know something every day stuff. Yeah. And and the kind of crazy thing is that we kind of life was that in her lad like it was. It would have been selfish of me to have her keep holding on in the state that she was, because it would have been for me. Yeah, you know, and what she's gonna be sixty five pounds for another year, so in the hopes that there's a new treatment that comes out or whatever, and you know, she went her way. And that's really I mean, I think all of us deserve that. We all do. Yeah, but that's I know what you mean, because because I looked at my mom and thought the same thing. But then like it's almost we're like I remember saying to her like at first, you're you're you're saying like hold on, hold on, you know. And I remember saying, Mom, it's okay if you go, yeah, like we're all going to be okay. Don't worry. I'll keep the family together. But you know we can see that if this isn't good for you anymore, yeah, right, Yeah. And I remember at one point towards the end, because I would go over there to my parents and and I couldn't see her in pain for long periods of time, but I also wanted to see her. Yeah, So I would go over there and she'd just be wailing in pain, and and then i'd have to leave, like after a few minutes, and I'd be like, Mom, I love you, you know, and then I would just go to the car and cry. And I'm like there was one point, I you know, I was like to myself, taker, because this is not it's awful, because you don't want to see him like that, yeah, you know, And I felt guilty about that. Oh, I was just gonna say that because in readings like that happened, I get that all the time that all the people I'll be giving a said daughter reading about her mom, and I'll say, your mom is showing me that you told her it was okay to go, you know, and and that and that you regret so much that you did that, because maybe if you wouldn't have said that, she'd still be here. But you know that your mom couldn't do it anymore. You know, her body, there was no quality of life for her, and she was in a lot of pain. And she thanks you so much for saying that because that allowed release strife. Like I'm saying that to you. Yeah that yeah, that that like that, you know, that released her to go, you know, to this other place that isn't you know, it's a way from you physically, but it really isn't. You know. She's still with you just as much and she's out of that physical body that wasn't good anymore. Yeah, you know, Yeah, it wasn't a good vehicle for her. I always feel like it's a vehicle that allows us experiences, and she wasn't having that anymore. Yeah, yeah, you know that's it's something I had to kind of you know that I still I forgive myself for Yeah, but I just remember thinking those words, and I'm like, how could I ever think that about my mom? I know, I remember thinking to too and thinking like is this ever going to be over? Like it's it's awful. It was awful for all of us, you know, for us to see her and for her and especially for her to be in this state she was in, and it kind of got to be it was like time for her to cross, time for go be with my grandmother, you know. Yeah. So and my stepfather too remember that too, like she he was in the room too. Yeah so yeah, So what do you from all of the people that have spoken to you for their loved ones, what do you think is the most common element of them? And what I mean is like, what do you hear that they most want to convey that they still want to help them, that they love them. You know, they want to give as much evidence to me as they can so that you know for sure it's your mom, you know, And then you know they they want to know that there's they still have a presence, they didn't just disappear. That's huge because we all worry about that or like a parent that loses a child, you worry so much about your kids anyway, and and when and when a child crosses over, you're so worried, and then the child wants to don't worry about me. Here's what I'm doing now, you know. Yeah, I'm okay. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I love Yeah. It's always so heartbreaking to do that, but it's so good too, because when somebody gets the evidence and they get the messages, they feel better. You can, they shift. That's awesome. Yeah, thank you so much for speaking with me about death and dying and all the amazing work you're doing. You are doing life changing work. So thank you. Thank you so much it thanks for asking me. It was an honor. Thank you. The honor was mine. The honor truly is mine. Reverend Angela app not only was gracious enough to sit down with me and share what mediumship is to help demystify it for me, but she was empathetic enough to share her own story of what led her here and why she's doing this and how her and I are talking today. She's a prime example of why people from all around the world come to lily Dale, New York in search of answers of their own, whether it be about someone on the other side, or about their own budding sensitivity. When we return, you'll hear unedited my own personal reading from Reverend app Does mom come through? Does anyone here for yourself? The moment of truth? From the moment I met her, I immediately felt a comfort with Reverend Angela app a peace. She's both warm and welcoming, and she has an energy about her that allows you to feel safe. I knew that I was led to her for a reason, and almost immediately upon meeting her, I'd find out what that reason was. I believe that we all that we all have spirit guides and guardian angels and our loved ones on the other side. And when I do a reading, my guides connect to yours. That's where I get my information. Okay. I always believe this is for healing purposes and highest and best and guidance always Okay. So I always start up in that safe prayer okay, and then and I see things, I get feelings, I get words. I'll give you whatever comes, Okay, I'll ask if it makes sense. If it doesn't, tell me no, it's okay. I can get more information, okay, Okay, all right, you're ready, Okay, Oh God as we opened the door to communication in unity of the Holy Spirit, the Great I Am presence of the universe. We give thanks for we know that the words spoken are filled with your love, truth, wisdom, and understanding the highest Amen. Do you have a grandpa on the other side that you were real close to. I feel like a grandpa that had a great sense of humor, because I feel like a gentleman kind of stepping in in the first thing I'm seeing is like his big smile. Okay, so like a big smile and in a good sense of humor. He was fun. He was almost like a big kid himself. Do you understand? Okay? And this and is this mom, Mom's husband or this other grandfather? Because I felt like that's that's who it was. I keep feeling like like when he smiled, it's like his smile reached his eyes and I see sparkling eyes. I feel like he was somebody too who's a strong man too. And I feel like it feels like you could felt like you could lean on him, like he was somebody you could always go to for advice. Like I want to say, like second father is kind of what this feels like to me for you, Okay, with him. Okay. Um, I feel like he steps in with you a lot. Okay. I feel like he has his hand like on your shoulder like all the time, letting if you were he's proud of you. You know, working hard was important. I feel like he was a hard working man and he always Um, I see him shaking hands. I feel like a handshake kind of man. Do you understand? Okay? Because I feel like you're the same way. And I feel like if you say you know I'm gonna I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna be there for somebody. You are and you put like about a thousand percent of yourself and anything you do, and I feel like he was that way as well. And he's saying you it's like you learned that from him. Okay, all right. Did he cross when you were younger? Yes, okay, it feels like you were younger. Okay, but I feel like he's still kind of head a presence in your life always. All right, So he so I want to say, I feel like he's saying I came through first, because once the women get talking, I won't be able to get in there. Okay, is it something? Okay? All right? Okay? So all right, And I feel like the whole time that we've been doing this, I feel like my mom and your mom probably would have been friends. Yeah, because I feel like your mom was like my mom always pushed me and nudged me along, and I feel like your mom's doing the same thing your your mom. Your mom is saying like, there's no way, like I feel you were the most important person to your mom in her life. Like I feel like it was almost like the two of you, like the two of us against the world kind of thing. The two of us can make it through. Like like like she she says, she was the mom and she supported you, but I feel like you supported her too, Like it feels like that's just kind of the way the connection was between the two of you. Um, I don't know if you believe in past lives. Okay, I believe in that too. That's a whole other topic. But I feel like she's showing me that the two of you were together, I feel like in so many lives and you will be again. But but but but I can hear saying as I'm saying that too. She's saying, but I don't want him to think he has to wait until like another life for us to be together. I am with him all the time. I don't know if you have anything happened where it feels like I keep seeing like lights flickering or lights blinking. And I also feel I keep seeing pennies. I don't know if you find pennies or fine coins. She's giving me things. Pay attention if if you don't, okay, because because I feel like you're going to have that. I keep seeing something lights flickering. I don't know what that's about, but I see that too. Um. I also am seeing I feel like cardinals and I feel like blue jays. Okay, so I'm seeing two different kinds of birds and both of them appear almost daily in my backyard. Oh all right, okay, so you understand that. Okay, that's good because because because I feel like she's trying her best to figure out ways, and I feel like she talks to you all the time too. It's like she kind of comes to you in dreams. I'm seeing that as well. Okay, does she and you wake up in the morning. Because I feel like your mom was a great advice giver, Like I feel like your mom would have been the person if you were trying to figure out what am I going to do next? Like she would have been the one. She was very sincere and kind, I feel like, a very very kind heart and very very giving and very genuine and also had a sense of humor too. And she's saying she had to have a sense of humor because you made her laugh all the time. Like I feel that she's saying that that that's that's what you did. Like I could see you as as a little kid, like your charm get you got away with things with your sense of humor. Okay and your charm does it make sense? And she yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, I'm seeing that too. Okay, so so um. But definitely I feel that with her she was very like I see giving and I see since a lot a lot of sincerity with her, Like I feel she was the kind of person that if you need it, really needed the shirt, offer back, she'd give it to you. And a lot of people say that those kinds of things, but I feel like with your mom, that's exactly who she was. One hundred percent. She gave advice, like like I hear wise, I feel like she was very very wise. It feels to me like she was intuitive too, because I could because I feel like the advice she gave sometimes like if you were to ask her, it's like, where did they that even come from? I feel she was intuitive. Does that make sense? Yeah, very very much so. I don't even know if you thought of it as intuition like back then as you would now kind of looking back at it, Okay. I feel definitely Grandma or mo mom you call her, Okay. I feel like her stepping into I feel like she liked having the mom mom because it was like, yes, two moms or something like almost like that made her more important, you know, and she's kind of laughing about that too. I feel like an easy going with her too. Yeah. Did somebody drink tea or coffee or something? Was at her? Yes? All the tea. Yeah, it's like I saw those teacups with the China teacups with the saucer. I don't know if she yeah, okay, yeah, does somebody have those? I do? Okay, good because because because I feel that she's saying you should drink tea out of those, because I don't feel like you do. And I don't even know if you drink tea okay, But but I feel like it's whatever you drink, drink drink it out of those once in a while, because because you'll have her energy with you when you do. Because I feel she was just as important to you as your mom. Yeah, I mean we we. Her and I had a excu friends, best friends, like I can hear her saying I was like a second mom to him. But we were best friends and we had fun together, like you know, we we did things together. We had fun, like I could see almost the two of you almost like missed mischievous together. I don't know, it feels like that and kind of laughing together and like let's go do this or let's go sneak and do that. Okay. I feel so I feel like they, they all three of them want you to know. And Grandpa too, Like I feel like they all want you to know. You didn't call them Grandpa papa. Okay he said, he said, I said, Grandpa said, that's not what he called me. I heard him say that. Okay, so so, but but I feel like they're showing me that, Yeah, you're on the right path. Okay. I feel like definitely on the right path in your life. And it feels to me that as you're doing that, okay, Like I feel like business wise, I see doors opening, but I feel personally too, okay, Like I don't know, I feel like question marks around your head, like you question everything and you're always wondering about everything. And so I feel like they're saying, just just keep on going and don't worry and don't feel like you have to push yourself. Just kind of go with the flow and let things fall into place and they will all right, like almost like I could. I feel like I'm hearing they're saying, not that we were good at this, but be patient. Just be patient. It will all come like at the exact time, whether you choose to believe in mediumship or not. There are numerous and specific things that Angela said to me that are impossible for her to have known. We had never met each other before. This reading was the first time that I had ever even spoken to her. I had never even been in Lilydale before, and there was no fishing on her part. There was no googling me beforehand, and we did that on purpose with Nate reaching out to the various guests from the reading that Reverend Napped gave me. There are concrete examples of things that she knew, and I have no scientific explanation to explain how she knew them. Do I think Angela was in touch with Mom and subsequently my Mom and pop up. I truly, truly do. I went into Lilydale, New York, ready to explain away anything that may have happened. My goal in coming here, as it has been with this entire series, is to explore the various aspects of death and grief and belief systems and the afterlife. What I didn't expect was to be totally floored by what I feel here in lily Dale, This undeniable energy, this feeling. I can't even describe it. I didn't expect to feel Mom in the room with me as I got my reading from Reverend App. I didn't expect to hear words that she had literally said to me, word for word, coming out of the Reverend's lips. None of it, to me, is explainable by conventional science. My time in lily Dale with Reverend App and with Tom have convinced me that there is certainly something to mediumship. I am imagine it to like how some people are exceptional a music while most others aren't. Maybe some people have the gift of sensitivity to be able to hear those on the other side, and most others aren't. I certainly believe that now more than I ever have, and if anyone in history would be there to make contact with me would do anything in their power to give me signs that they're there, it'd be Mom, and that, in my mind, there is no question she did. Next time, on death, grief, and other ship, we don't discuss I discuss the first year after Mom passed, What has it been like navigating these uncharted waters, How have I gotten through, and how I have it? Plus I speak with doctor Catherine Sheer of Columbia University's Center for Complicated Grief about what complicated grief is, how we can navigate out of it, and so much more. I'm going to see my mother, she said she'd be me when I come. I'm just school Overjoa, I'm just school wind over. I'm the school were over, DoD, I'm just school. We know the ho